How many members can grade from pictures?

bestclser1 · January 23, 2012 1:15PM

This has been a question posed frequently in the last ten years,sore subject with me.I say you cant!

… · January 23, 2012 1:18PM

Zero

melvin289 · January 23, 2012 1:20PM

I have a hard enough time grading from an PCGS slab.

Ron

AUandAG · January 23, 2012 1:21PM

Heck yes I can grade from pics!

Just not always accurately or correctly!
bob

SeattleSlammer · January 23, 2012 1:21PM

I have to agree at the moment based upon most of the guesses from my recent thread.

Did I inspire you to start this thread?

.....but I think that we do better on average with Morgans when the pics are decent.

NewParadigm · January 23, 2012 1:24PM

I'm usually withing 10 points

Unknown · January 23, 2012 1:24PM

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Timbuk3 · January 23, 2012 1:28PM

Not that good !!!

bestclser1 · January 23, 2012 1:28PM

<< I have to agree at the moment based upon most of the guesses from my recent thread.

Did I inspire you to start this thread?

.....but I think that we do better on average with Morgans when the pics are decent. >>

Yes you did,as i have had forum members who are supposed experts in a field,claim they can accurately not only grade,but price from pictures.Must be real good to do that too.

Lehigh96 · January 23, 2012 1:29PM

I think a better question is how many coins can be graded from pictures. Grading a blast white common date MS65 Morgan Dollar from a photo is not terribly difficult and it is very rare that a photo of one of these coins will be hiding something. On the other hand, grading coins that are difficult to photograph, series that have huge luster disparities, or series that are notoriously messed with are impossible to grade based on photos. This would include all proof coins, early copper, and most gold. Luster is the toughest element to judge from a photo and one of the most important elements of grading in mint state grades. Altered surfaces will also be very difficult to detect from a photo.

IMO, it is not a question of the grader, it is a question of the coin. Some can be, some can't.

Unknown · January 23, 2012 1:29PM

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TwoSides2aCoin · January 23, 2012 1:33PM

I cannot grade though I like to think I can interpret photos by comparative analysis from a photograde book by QDB.

bestclser1 · January 23, 2012 1:45PM

<< I cannot grade though I like to think I can interpret photos by comparative analysis from a photograde book by QDB. >>

Best answer yet,Bob yours was cutest.

Buzzybest · January 23, 2012 2:00PM

The grade always varies depending on whether I'm selling the coin or buying it.

blu62vette · January 23, 2012 2:06PM

I think I can interpret a lot of things in images and know what to expect in the coin. Also can see when pics are messed with to deceive.

AuroraBorealis · January 23, 2012 2:15PM

Grading from a pic at best is just counting dings and wear... So much is left out of a pic especially with proof and ms coins... Many times as well the way the lighting reflects off of imperfections in an image is way more exaggerated then the coin in hand...With that said with the images that are capable today does give a good shot at an educated guess... As far as pricing from a pic, better be really good at guessing... My 2 cents...

AB

Type2 · January 23, 2012 2:15PM

That will be a good one to put on the bay PCGS forum graded. We can all grade but we are not good at it. I think I can tell you if it is close to MS or not but that is it....

bestclser1 · January 23, 2012 2:22PM

<< I think I can interpret a lot of things in images and know what to expect in the coin. Also can see when pics are messed with to deceive. >>

Not the question Todd,we all have learned to decipher different images from different people.Yours ar different from Jeremys and his are different than Heritages or Teletrades and different ebay sellers,and many of us can interpret alot based on whose images,how long we have watched them etc.For instance,Laura De Falco scans were certainly brighter,and different,but those who bought coins from Mikey may he rest in peace knew that.Gary Mugno had great pics before he passed away,but took him years to get there.When i first bought coins from him they were always nicer in hand as his first images were understated etc.Just saying when some members make calls on coins they have never seen in hand from someone elses opinion,it has cost me alot of money.Luster,pop,color,PLish or DMPL surfaces just cant be GRADED from images.JMHO

Bochiman · January 23, 2012 2:56PM

Grade perfectly from pics? No.
Get an idea of the grade? A lot of times.

Lighting/angle/style all can expose minor flaws and make them seem huge while at the same time can hide things.

The thing is also that most of the pictures exaggerate the coins, due to the actual size being so much smaller, so one needs to be careful grading from pics that are 3-100x larger than real life on the coin.

notwilight · January 23, 2012 3:08PM

I can.

I can tell you what grade the picture is. As for the coin? good luck. --Jerry

BryceM · January 23, 2012 3:40PM

Sometimes very hard to tell AU from MS.

Apart from that I think Lehigh96's answer is the best.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 23, 2012 6:21PM

I'm pretty good at grading coins from pictures, or at least reducing the coin's grade down to a small range.

MisterBungle · January 23, 2012 6:43PM

"How many members can grade from pictures?"
-----
I can. Of course nobody else may agree with me, and I
may not even agree with myself if I see the coin in hand,
or even a different picture.

We just do it for fun here anyway.

~

sonoranmonsoon · January 23, 2012 8:59PM

I always wonder when looking at a picture of a slabbed coin, if a scratch is on the coin or the holder.

fcloud · January 23, 2012 9:00PM

No one can grade from a photo. You can get an idea of grade, and that is why so many call it "guess the grade."

Twobitcollector · January 23, 2012 9:38PM

Depends on the quality of the photo. Most time I'm a point or two low

etexmike · January 23, 2012 10:00PM

Grade from pictures? I sometimes have trouble grading a coin in hand.

Mike

DorkGirl · January 23, 2012 10:30PM

Honestly? It depends on the picture.

PerryHall · January 23, 2012 10:36PM

<< No one can grade from a photo. You can get an idea of grade, and that is why so many call it "guess the grade." >>

Agree---If the pic is high quality, you can come fairly close, especially in the circulated grades. In MS grades, it's more difficult since luster is harder to discern in pics and hairlines aren't always visible in pics.

Broadstruck · January 23, 2012 10:56PM

I do pretty well, but heck this hobby's evolved a lot in the two decades as I still recall grading from just a written description!

kryptonitecomics · January 23, 2012 11:07PM

For the series I actively collect I would say I am pretty good at grading from pics but nobody is perfect and the biggest thing holding folks back is the quality of the pictures we have to grade from...not so much our skill in grading. Plus most of the forum members here and across the street try to micrograde blown up pictures....frankly I don't get it as an image that take up half the screen is going to show every little flaw but in hand a lot of the marks are almost invisible...try explaining that to the masses

TwoSides2aCoin · January 23, 2012 11:15PM

I have a submission for PCGS... it would be cool if i could just send photos and my cc number. Then they email me back with the grades and I could write the results on the 2x2s

Rodebaugh · January 23, 2012 11:17PM

Grading coins by pictures is like playing basketball. The more practice you have the better you become. Still not going to make every basket no matter if you own the gym plus you need a fully inflated ball (ie good photos).

roadrunner · January 23, 2012 11:21PM

Given good enough photos it's fairly easy to get within 1/2 pt on untoned MS 61-66 Morgans and MS61-MS66 Saints.
I find the saints even easier since it usually comes down to just counting marks. But given a good photo, luster blast
can be evaluated as well. Hairlines on silver coins can easily be hidden. Most AU coins can easily be weeded
out from among mint state coins. Yeah, there's that rare AU58+ with 95% luster than can fool a lot of people. But even
if it does, it's market price is often in the MS61-63 range anyways. More often than not, it's the grader's inexperience in not being
able to tell an AU58 from a mint state coin, not the camera's.

mrearlygold · January 23, 2012 11:56PM

bestclser1 is correct

vibr0nic · January 24, 2012 2:24AM

<< This has been a question posed frequently in the last ten years,sore subject with me. I say you cant! >>

Absolutely no way.

In fact, didn't PCGS recently have a contest to see how well collectors could guess the grade IN HAND, and the best performance (the winner) was only 40% correct?

Trying to match opinions with a TPG grader's in-hand inspection vs an online image is just impossible to do with any consistency. Ballpark grade? Sure. Precise grade? Heck no.

Broadstruck · January 24, 2012 2:33AM

<< I have a submission for PCGS... it would be cool if i could just send photos and my cc number. Then they email me back with the grades and I could write the results on the 2x2s

>>

relicsncoins · January 24, 2012 2:34AM

Circulated coins.....Yes
Proof coins......No
Uncirculated......Maybe. (If I can guess within one grade of the actual grade, I consider that pretty good)

TahoeDale · January 24, 2012 2:44AM

Today, there is another way to look at this question--can an image of a coin
be an incentive for you to buy it? Or just pass? Auction houses and dealer websites have the
opportunity to really give us the true(almost) quality of a coin.

A couple of examples:
1. An early dollar is offered for sale as a MS 62. But the reverse shield and stars are almost flat, though the luster and obverse strike is nice.
In addition, there are adjustment marks on the reverse along 30% of the rims. Most of us can decide on this alone if the
coin is worth pursuing.

2. A CBH has excellent toning and surfaces, and might be a MS 63+ to 65, depending on the in hand view. It is also a scarce variety.
Of course, I am interested and will get the coin to view.

3. The proof seated liberty quarter looks DCAM, and there is nice rim toning. Could be a 65 to 67. For the specialist,
send it on.

No one should pay for( or bid on) an expensive coin, based on a photo. But knowing a few qualities will assist you in your buying habits.

bestclser1 · January 24, 2012 2:49AM

See,Tahoedale has some great points,PCGS grading contest 40% in hand,and of course mrearlygold has the real answer too.

Pokermandude · January 24, 2012 2:52AM

It mostly comes down to the quality of the photo. If it's a great photo of a coin in a series I know, I am pretty darn good at hitting the mark. If the photo is sub-par though, it becomes a crap shoot.

drwstr123 · January 24, 2012 3:02AM

When it comes down to copper, it's easy.....91.

bestclser1 · January 24, 2012 3:05AM

<< Grading from a pic at best is just counting dings and wear... So much is left out of a pic especially with proof and ms coins... Many times as well the way the lighting reflects off of imperfections in an image is way more exaggerated then the coin in hand...With that said with the images that are capable today does give a good shot at an educated guess... As far as pricing from a pic, better be really good at guessing... My 2 cents...

AB

>>

AB,You hit my real point on the money,and folks shouldnt SWAG when it comes to monster coins.You as well as I as well as many board members who are willing to step up,get to play with the nicer coins.GETTING LUCKY DOESNT HURT EITHER.JMHO

Baley · January 24, 2012 3:06AM

I can grade really well from good pictures, and so can many of you. Perfectly?

of course not! who can grade perfectly or agree all the time? A "grade" is really an appriasal opinion

Billet7 · January 24, 2012 4:12AM

With wear I think it little matters so long as the pics are good. I can grade equally in hand or from pics if the coin lies in the circulated grades.

Uncirculated only becomes a problem because things can be hidden with shrewd lighting, and luster can be tough to determine. If one has multiple pics from various angles I think it can be done with reasonable accuracy.

MikeInFL · January 24, 2012 4:29AM

In the contests I've participated, I'm about plus or minus a half point on average.

bestclser1 · January 24, 2012 4:42AM

<< In the contests I've participated, I'm about plus or minus a half point on average. >>

Mike,Are these grading in hand or from pics?

MikeInFL · January 24, 2012 4:44AM

<< 

<< In the contests I've participated, I'm about plus or minus a half point on average. >>

Mike,Are these grading in hand or from pics? >>

From pictures.

Here's one such contest.

Link to CoinTalk contest

Scroll down to the results....I'm Leadfoot. After 300 odd coins, I'm averaging about 0.5 -- I had it down to the 0.3 range for a while before slipping recently.

My results on other GTGs are about the same -- I get about half of them right, and the rest I'm off by a point (e.g.. I guess 45 and the coin ends up being a 40), generally.

Frankly, I never thought I was that good at grading until I started to participate in these threads and keeping track. Going into it, my expectations were much lower -- like you I didn't think it was possible to be that accurate -- and the results kind of surprised me.

That said, I tend to stick to guessing coins/series I have some familiarity with -- if you posted a bunch of your toned Morgans or Jay's Saints I'm sure I'd do terrible. lol

WaterSport · January 24, 2012 4:48AM

Post a cent and it will definitely have a 15 point spread.

WS

pmac · January 24, 2012 4:57AM

The answer is: we all can. Maybe not agree with a TPG, but we all sometimes disagree with TPGs. We all have to have confidence with unbiased grading by TPGs to level the playing field, but the final word is "buy the coin, not the slab".

COALPORTER · January 24, 2012 5:43AM

<< I'm usually withing 10 points

>>

Not bad, considering how coins are now graded on a 700 point scale.

How many members can grade from pictures?

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